One of the most important lessons my wife and I learned as we were opening up our marriage is that just because I masturbate with guys doesn’t mean I love her any less.
In my case, I score a 3.8 on the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid. It measures changes over time, and emotional as well as sexual preferences. For me, what this score means is that while I enjoy having sex with my wife, and love her dearly, I’m somewhat more physically attracted to guys and I thrive on close male bonding. My ideal marriage would be a polyamorous triad with my wife and another bi guy.
My bisexual friend and bate bud, Mark, who is married to a woman and also in an open relationship writes, “Bisexuality is a diverse and complex sexual orientation with many different ways one can be bisexual. Bisexuality is not just a self described identity or sexual orientation, there is also bisexual behavior. In other words, some people identify as gay, lesbian or even straight but are bisexual in their emotional or sexual attractions and behaviors.”
Mark gave an example for this article, “Straight and bi guys can enjoy the simple fun of sexual play with their same gender if they let go of societal teachings. A good example is when I had a straight nudist friend over for a hot tub the other day. We got talking and he said he would like me to massage his penis to orgasm and was even happy to exchange it. No discussion whatsoever that he is anything but a straight person, yet there we were.” While Marks’s nudist friend identifies as straight, his behavior at that time was bi, and there was no discrepancy.
As one BateWorld member who wishes to remain anonymous explains, “When I play with guys it’s purely physical, sexual – about getting off. I have zero interest in an emotional attachment or relationship. Just the way I’m wired.”
As part of a local Bi+ social group, I’ve talked with guys who are bi-curious and visiting for the first time. One guy shared that while he is sexually attracted to both men and women, in a relationship he only likes dating women. This can be confusing for a man who is sorting out his sexual attractions along with his emotions. But what makes it confusing, some would argue, is the false binary presented sometimes by both straight and gay culture that says you’ve got to “pick a side.” False, sex-negative religious teachings only add to the pressure and confusion.
Robyn Ochs, who lectures all over the US on bisexuality, puts it this way, “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”
Various forms of bisexuality are becoming more accepted. As reported in “The Advocate,” and based on a modified Kinsey survey, “As many as 49 percent of adults [in the UK] aged 18-24 described themselves as ‘not 100 percent heterosexual,’ indicating bisexuality is more common among younger adults, who enjoy more sexual fluidity.” This is an encouraging trend along with other studies that show about half of all millennials are open to non-monogamy. This opens the way for more options of having friends with benefits and J/O buddies throughout our lives, and regardless of the relationship situation we find ourselves in, if we navigate it properly.
As another BateWorld member who also wishes to remain anonymous puts it, “I’m attracted to both men and women sexually but romantically prefer women. But it doesn’t mean I haven’t had friendly and good relationships with a guy I’ve had some kind of sex with. Some bi guys want a dick only experience with a guy. I get that. Not really me. There really is a flexible spectrum about sexual identity for some people, and you can’t pin it down. It’s fluid and situational. And for me, sex with a woman and a man are different experiences completely.”
The point here is that the less we misuse labels, and the less anxious we are about sexual experimentation, the more we can enjoy the full range of human sexual experiences available to us. Such experiences can include the pleasure of mutual masturbation with another guy, regardless of how we relate to the opposite, or same, gender at different times. As we express our desires to those we feel safe with, we might be surprised at how many of our buds would enjoy stroking out a load together. I was.
Written by Stefan Jax AKA DoggyBoner on BW
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“The point here is that the less we misuse labels,….” I have to argue that this phrase should be: “The less we use labels at all,….”
It is labeling gender and sexuality which causes angst. We need to rid our language of sexual orientation labels and simply state that humans are “sexual.”
I like that! We simply are “sexual”. All of us.
I agree, no labels needed. We’re all here for basically the same reason(s), we enjoy sexual pleasure. It’s in our genes & in our jeans. We’re all sexual.
In fact, we’re apparently the most sexual of all creatures with perhaps an exception or two. Believe some researchers mention dolphins are more sexual.
maybe we could hear a blog comment from your wife
@batorpenis, not a bad idea. I’ll run it by her
One word. Bullshit. Maybe in this particular context, no, but as long as there are more states where I CAN be fired because I’m gay than there are that protect my civil rights, labels matter.
And… as long as BateWorld continues to host groups set up expressly to exclude gay men, labels matter. A man could drown in this much hypocrisy.
We, the staff of BateWorld, never intended for any of the articles written about BateWorld to try to segregate any of the men from each other. Our mission has always been to promote and encourage men’s masturbation as a fun, healthy and vital part of life. We believe that is true for all men regardless of their sexual orientation. Yes, we also do believe that masturbation has no orientation….all men love to masturbate, regardless of how they identify themselves
I appreciate what you say and ostensibly agree…. YET, whenever we casually say that labels don’t matter, as stated in many of the comments above, we deny that labels matter very, very much when they are being used to discriminate and exclude on BateWorld.
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Way to edit my full comment! – ironically, the main part of my comment that seems to have been erased was the paragraph that deals with gay erasure.
Spoken like a true privileged “straight” guy
Sure we may all like masturbation. But most of the guys on BW are not friends or allies. You’re cowards. Who hide behind this notion of “no labels” so you can get your kicks off with other guys without feeling guilt or shame or being judged and going about your daily lives in hetero-normativy. You contribute nothing to the actual struggles of sexual and gender expression. You only benefit from it.
Amen!
As the writer of the article, I find it puzzling that there are assumptions that I, or other commenters, are coming from a position of “straight privilege,” or lead a hetero-normative life, or that this column or anything associated with BW intends to exclude, rather than include. I respect your position, and in fact agree there is much discrimination out there that has yet to be overcome. As a bisexual person I consider myself to be the “B” in LGBTQ. I am out to friends and family as much as any other LGBTQ person might be. I don’t consider myself to be 50/50 but as a bi person to be 100% straight AND 100% gay. I know that’s a hard concept, but one that needs to be accepted and appreciated too for what it is. I am as comfortable being part of the gay community as I am in the straight. This has been true all my life. Yes, as said before, labels can be misused, but they are also inevitable. Humans categorize things all the time as a short-cut. It becomes harmful when used to denigrate rather than affirm. In terms of contributing, or not, to the struggles of sexual and gender expressions, again I don’t understand how assumptions can be made when you don’t know a person. I do as much or more than any LGBTQ person when it comes to the causes and people I help support. And my experience is one of joy being in the annual Pride Parade. And yes, as said before, I respect however one chooses to identify and the intent of these posts is to tear down barriers and not to build them up. We are all brothers in the bate on here. Peace
Was just about to write “…best thing I’ve ever read on sexual orientation…” Then I read the comments and can see that there are folks who will try to use a very open-minded, measured and comprehensively respectful article as a platform to try to perpetuate their personal reality of all human sexuality fitting neatly into a binary model. Or folks who feel that if we don’t cling to the binary model and labels then we can’t make cultural/political progress. If I was prone to see myself as a victim, I could recount my own sexual/romantic experiences over the last 50 years as a man living a straight life and then a gay life because given the examples I had to follow you either fit into one or the other and never the two shall meet. Personally, I admire greatly that dudes like you, Stefan, will speak up and say “my emotional and sexual instincts are a bit more complex than that” and please don’t try to make me squeeze into one of your two little boxes…I don’t fit. And I do want there to be personal as well as cultural/political progress for those of us who are trying to make sense of our own ambiguous instincts.
Everything you write clearly comes from a place of privilege and heternormativity. But of course you’re not going to see it. It’s not just an assumption. None of this is “open-minded” or a “comprehensively respectful article” It’s biased, full of denial, and internal homophobia. Your entire blog series is frankly insulting and I honestly hope you quit writing it because it’s ridiculous. It just sounds like you’re playing pretend. And you’re basically getting off on your own self-proclaimed progessiveness.
Honestly, this whole conversation makes me want to leave this site and never look back. While I actually believe that you believe your thoughts and attempts are forward-thinking, you’ve actually made me feel even less part of a community I once thought I was part of. I’m left feeling, once again, excluded by a group of people who can’t ever seem to just feel comfortable in their own skin.
And the sad part is you’ll go on patting yourself on the back.
All perspectives are welcomed and encouraged. Thanks
All perspectives are welcomed and encouraged..except when you guys get to pick and choose what comments are posted and which aren’t so you can drive the conversation and peddle your shitty narrative.
Well you have one thing right – you guys are definitely “straight” because only hetero men are this small in their thinking and have to forcibly silence anyone who opposes them.
It’s not that deep.